Research reference : syllabus of Uechi Kambun's school

jorvik · Post by **jorvik** » Wed May 02, 2007 7:45 pm

Still smells .and I wouldn't buy it whatever the packageing was

Josann · Post by **Josann** » Wed May 02, 2007 10:03 pm

< But These folks were Scheitt..and scheitt is scheitt....in Uechi or anywhere else.
they don;t get any special dispensation because they do Uechi ( whatever Uechi is ) >

This is what I'm talking about. These guys were supposedly "good" but then again they are still "scheitt" in your opinion.

Perhaps a better place for your views would be rosstraining.com/forum/ I don't mean to be rude, but I find it tedious to hear -again and again- how uechi *****, is not reality based, not as good as boxing etc. There is got to be a better forum on the internet for you. Why post about a style that you don't seem to have much faith in?

Bill Glasheen · Post by **Bill Glasheen** » Wed May 02, 2007 10:21 pm

Thanks ALL for the resources provided on this thread. For the most part, we have some wonderful material to ponder.

And we even have thread participants policing each other!

I just wanted to make a few comments.

First... Kimo Wall pictured doing the makegabe-gu...

... has been to several of George's camps. He's a good man. He also coincidentally taught one of my dear instructors Goju Ryu. Dr. King however had a long list of other martial arts he studied (judo, kyokushinkai, aikido, kobudo, etc.) and had the benefit of reality training via special forces.

But I digress.

I just wanted to put in a plug for a good man and great martial artist.

As for the training device... This is a good example of why we shouldn't necessarily take everything in "Old Uechi" as religion. Kanbun's son certainly didn't with his additions and open mind concerning his students.

The pictured training device is ages old, and an "old school" tool for baseball pitchers. It however only works wrist flexion, wrist extention, and to a smaller extent the grip. It does not work supination, pronation, ulnar deviation, radial deviation, and finger extension AT ALL.

As Fred stated, modern gyms can take old concepts and bring them to the next level. We have several incredible machines in my gym which work these various degrees of freedom of motion of the wrists and fingers. And I'm constantly getting great ideas wherever I travel.

Old isn't necessarily the best. It is what it is. We see great ideas in the context of that time period.

We as practitioners of the art - IMNSHO - should take Kanbun's style and strive to perfect his intent. There's always room for great teachers and students with creative minds coming from types of expertise which didn't exist in Kanbun's time.

- Bill

mhosea · Post by **mhosea** » Thu May 03, 2007 1:27 am

Josann wrote:This is what I'm talking about. These guys were supposedly "good" but then again they are still "scheitt" in your opinion.

In the interests of peace, let me point out that that is a misreading. The guys he was calling "good" (one who doesn't train and a Canadian) are not the same as the ones was referring to negatively (local club).

maxwell ainley · Post by **maxwell ainley** » Fri May 04, 2007 3:14 pm

The equipment and weight in the photo is lightweight,not that its wrong bye the way ,its safe and it will provide ,some thing much heavier will do more things ,other than what Bill says .

Plus its portable ,and its in the dojo and its at hand ,also Kanbun did not place emphasis upon the use of these tools ,more time was spent upon sanchin ,to build strength .

"Strength of the fingers hand arms come through practice of the powerfull sanchin kata".

If I am willing to devote four hrs a day to sanchin ,time permitting ,thats the root of my strength ,jars ,makeabe -gu test it ,they arn't the source of strength.

Increase sanchin strength ,test with either increased weight or increased repetitions Makeabe-gu ,or jars .

Another reason why a three year min sanchin was in there first.

benzocaine · Post by **benzocaine** » Fri May 04, 2007 4:50 pm

If I am willing to devote four hrs a day to sanchin ,time permitting ,thats the root of my strength ,jars ,makeabe -gu test it ,they arn't the source of strength.

4 hours a day???

Even half an hour a day is hard to force yourself to do ... hell even 15 minutes is tough but I am sure the results would be there.

I admire your discipline.

Bill Glasheen · Post by **Bill Glasheen** » Fri May 04, 2007 5:53 pm

I'm not so sure I recommend the 4 hours a day thing.

There was a time when I was doing that in my life. But you really, really need to know what you are doing to put that much time in. If it is 4 hours of intense training on any one thing, you generally are doing more harm than good.

All things should be done in balance. With exercise, the rest period is as important as the working period. When you are working, you are tearing your body down. Your body RESPONDS to the insult by releasing anabolic hormones and engaging in repair and rebuilding.

IF you work out too much, then your body responds with catabolism (tearing down). For example a marathoner needs to run as light a load as possible. That's all fine and good, except extremes in endurance result in a minimizing of power output. There are no marathon runners competing in the high jump, power lifting, or a slam dunk contest.

For any one body development thing you do, an hour of INTENSE work (or often much less) gets the best result. Then you need at least a day of rest to let the body respond to your work. That's when the growth and improvement happens.

Developing coordination and learning tactics is an entirely different proposition. Even still, I note that too much time on any one thing doesn't get good results. There is a law of diminishing returns. Often when working with karate students on their routines or my kids with homework and music, I note that three one-hour sessions with sleep in-between is an order of magnintude better than any one three-hour session. Even your brain needs time to rest, organize, and synthesize.

- Bill

Dana Sheets · Post by **Dana Sheets** » Sat May 05, 2007 3:21 am

Hey Mark,

About the seisan jump back - you mentioned this when we trained together a couple years ago. Then you said that you were going to call someone over in Okinawa to double check it.

What you then came back with is that it had been a jump back, Kanei had changed it to the step back - and then changed it back to the original jump.

The two moves are basically the same in my eyes - one is just a more exaggerated version of the other and the jump shows the body mechanics pulled out like an exploded mechanical drawing.

...does that ring a bell or did I mis-remember?

-Dana

Van Canna · Post by **Van Canna** » Sat May 05, 2007 3:31 am

Tommy-san was very specific to me about Sanchin practice.

No more than three a day but done very intensely_

maxwell ainley · Post by **maxwell ainley** » Sat May 05, 2007 7:35 am

I have always spent considerable amounts of time on sanchin ,people who know me will verify this ,and a few come on the forums from england .

Choice ,we have a choice in uechi ,to were our time should be spent , initially all my time was spent on sanchin ,at the well of uechi.this is in keeping with Kanbun sensei policy to introduce nothing else into the students focus ,to distract him/her .
Not easily distracted is a strength ,but we arnt going to develop that over night ,and there are many ways to do this and not just the Kanbun type method ,every one talks from their own unique perspective ,I speak from mine .

Spending longer periods of time to sanchin is a choice ,that can only be carried out if you have the attention span and endurance ,and sudden burst work rates ,that match or go over the top of a real down and dirty fight .

maxwell ainley · Post by **maxwell ainley** » Sat May 05, 2007 7:52 am

The uechi body and structure ,isn't like a greek god or a bulked up body builder ,its pared down a bit like the pitbull tight if needed, skin muscle tone ,you cant pinch a inch ,its designed for the fight .

maxwell ainley · Post by **maxwell ainley** » Sat May 05, 2007 10:17 am

REST.

Lets say your uechi workout is intensive ,say for two hrs with mini rest periods ,of high intensive ,here again it depends upon your overall condition how quickly you would recover .

Now you have twenty two hrs left of the day ,go watch a film , play snooker or pool down at the local pub ,then put your feet up and snooze for a hr ,take the kids to the park ,slip to the coast to watch the bridlinton bell come into the harbour ,then get a full nights sleep.

Real rest and recovery is when you arnt the victim of the west's fast hectic pace of life ,which invites the wrong use of the emotions which robs one of energy at a alarming rate .

jorvik · Post by **jorvik** » Sat May 05, 2007 7:32 pm

I think a better question would be not what Kanei Uechi did.but why he did it? As someone who has studied Chinese arts I get quite baffled with a lot of what Uechi folks do.
I do a martial art to learn how to fight better.........to learn how to defend myself. for that you need a clear stratagey and a clearly defined method to develop the mind and body needed to enact that strategy......I often site boxing as a good example, which a lot of folks don't like

..but it has that. A stratagy and a method as does Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu........or Tai-Chi and Wing-Chun............there are different methods to be sure, not all boxers fight the same.but overall they follow the same basic rules.they punch bags, shadow box,skip whatever....I suppose in that sense you could say what is your boxing?..but when folks say What is your Uechi? they don't mean that at all

...........so why did Kanei Uechi show the things he did? what was the strategy, how did the three kata and banging away on folks wrists make him into a better fighter

f.Channell · Post by **f.Channell** » Sat May 05, 2007 8:43 pm

I think one thing which is overlooked about Kanbun is that he came from a rural background. He went into conditioning already conditioned with the body of a farmer who did physical work all day so he could eat.

His fingers I imagine were already like steel from pulling radishes all day, every day, or preparing the soil to plant them.

F.

benzocaine · Post by **benzocaine** » Sat May 05, 2007 9:02 pm

why did Kanei Uechi show the things he did? what was the strategy, how did the three kata and banging away on folks wrists make him into a better fighter

Sanchin Jorvik. Look to sanchin....