Seisan Bunkai takedown???

[f.Channell]

I might be wrong but it sounds like Vans technique is similiar to this one.
http://www.judoinfo.com/images/nauta/sasaeta.gif
or this.
http://www.judoinfo.com/video/gokyo/Sas ... miAshi.wmv
Hope that's the one.
I'm guessing Van has scooped a leg, that's the difference.

[M J Brelsford]

Bill,

The kumite on the OKK DVD is not the same move for move that we did at the Naha dojo, we had no 8,9,and10.

The sequence is a bit different also, but its all fairly close. Dana might know it, not sure.

The takedown is the same though, even the same as at Futenma dojo.

Mark

[Van Canna]

Bill,

Good stuff. Especially the development of diagonal moves that make the ‘tough guy’ look like the monkey rolling a barrel down the hill_

I never learned the move any way other than a straight punch followed by a right front kick requiring left diagonal entry for the catch [along the X] and, for me, catch- slight side step diagonally to the right and tenshin/take down.


Nothing more stunning for the opponent than finding himself being sucked into a black hole to his right and down.

You could see the ‘WTF’ looks on the downed fighters’ faces in tournaments.


In my soccer years, diagonal moves were golden in the game. You can’t_ ‘footwork’ around the opposing players you don’t belong in the game.

I love to learn footwork. There isn’t much of it in Uechi in spite of the claims ‘you got to go deeper’ but whatever there is _ is good _like the tenshin moves in Hojo Undo/Konchin_

But here is something very special about to happen at the Shinkookai_

By Wes Tasker, Master at arms.

Module one: Footwork


1 – Sidestepping

 90º
 180º
 long 180º

2 – Ducking

 springing
 sidesteps

3 – Forward Triangle

 open
 closed
 retreating cross step

4 – Reverse Triangle

 open
 closed
 knees (upward, downward, roundhouse)
 leg checks

5 – Take-offs

 sidestep single
 sidestep double
 triangle single
 triangle double

6 – Ranging

 standard
 sidestep

7 – Shapes

 diamond (open & closed)
 hourglass (center, outside, spin)



Combined Footwork Patterns

 triangles with sidesteps
 four triangles combined
 saw

~~

[Van Canna]

Yes that is the move conceptually.

When I was taking judo it was a favorite of mine used on someone stepping into me hard with forward momentum and catching/sweeping the leg coming in that would drop them like a stone.

Now I favor the sweep with a lower shin 'slam' into the outside of the opponent's leg just as he puts it down, while yanking him down towards my left rear.

Judo is great combined with Uechi, don't you think?

[Van Canna]

Fred,

This is the one I loved a lot.


http://www.judoinfo.com/images/animatio ... ibarai.htm


And this one I love_ that I start with a sanchin step in between the legs, then spin the body for the throw.

I find it easy to pull it off, as many people don’t expect that one.

http://www.judoinfo.com/images/animatio ... himata.htm

[Van Canna]

And this one, another all time favorite.


http://www.judoinfo.com/images/animatio ... otoshi.htm

[Stryke]

hey Van I knew there was a reason we got on

great throws !!

[f.Channell]

Van,

All those throws share principles with Uechi stepping methods.
Uchimata is similiar to a stepping back kick, which most of us have trained.

You have a Judo background so you understand the physical movement which forces those techniques to work.

I am usually against the "secret throws in Uechi" thing because these principles are usually not taught correctly or not at all.

Most often takedowns in kumite or bunkai are just compliant, so in reality the takedown is never learned correctly. And most don't practice Ukemi prior to teaching the throws, and some Dojo teach it wrong.

This is why I think Uechi folk should definately cross train in a BJJ or Judo Dojo, at least after Sandan or so.

F.

[Dana Sheets]

hmmm, sadly no - I never learned the Naha kumite. But I'd be happy to. So much Uechi, so little time.

[Van Canna]

hey Van I knew there was a reason we got on

great throws !!

Birds of a feather my good friend.

[Van Canna]

All those throws share principles with Uechi stepping methods.

Yes_ the reason why I love them and one reason why you do so well with them, Fred.

Uchimata is similar too a stepping back kick, which most of us have trained.

Excellent analogy, Fred. This was one of the famous ‘killer kicks’ of Rabesa. When he was my student, I trained him to ‘sucker’ the opponent by stepping away from him to trigger the ‘chase reflex’ _ then stop and back up into him with momentum behind the back kick.

He used it in the China Town incident when he almost killed one of the punks coming at him [not Chinese] by caving in the rib cage at the sternum.

I am usually against the "secret throws in Uechi" thing because these principles are usually not taught correctly or not at all.

Agree_ that is mostly BS. Another way of the ‘you wouldn’t understand’ supremacy gang.

The master teachers understand human dynamics. To wit_ this is from Maestro Shamir _ now on J Thurston’s forum_

perform all actions many many times, slowly. Upon having reached acceptable skill level and repeatability, increase the speed slightly and re-achieve the same skill level as at the slower speed. & so on. Then do this in pairs - with partner at same level, but with randomised attacks.

Followed by innovative combinations of known moves. Followed by innovative moves unknown to partner. When working with partner or teacher, start very slowly, and strive for perfect understanding of what is "perfect move" before doing homework.

The better teacher will teach to prevent bad habits, and inculcate the "correct" moves.

Harry Shamir_ Instructor & Head Coach, SaEF Fencing Clubs_

I feel fortunate to have made contact with the maestro, who is extremely personable and has extended an invitation for me to learn the basics of fencing concepts at his Academy.

[f.Channell]

In Iaido you train very slowly with strict attention to form as well.
A small error in arm movement translates to a poor cut at the end of a 3-4' Katana.

Shinjo also has his own Kumite.
All moves seem to end in a takedown. More from kicking out or sweeping the leg, from what I have seen.

F.

[Bill Glasheen]

This is why I think Uechi folk should definately cross train in a BJJ or Judo Dojo, at least after Sandan or so.

Or better yet, some traditional Nihon Jiujitsu.

And I'd add aikido to that list as well.

I am usually against the "secret throws in Uechi" thing because these principles are usually not taught correctly or not at all.

Most often takedowns in kumite or bunkai are just compliant, so in reality the takedown is never learned correctly. And most don't practice Ukemi prior to teaching the throws, and some Dojo teach it wrong.

I have a different view of this, Fred.

As I stated earlier in the thread, I teach ukemi in my Uechi dojo from the very beginning. In my view, the grappling IS Uechi.

IMO, "That's not Uechi" is a bullschit excuse used by people who haven't bothered to explore the breadth of what is in the kata. And why? Because the work needed to realize this potential isn't in a dan test. Neither is many-on-one fighting either. But please don't tell me that fighting more than one individual isn't what we should be learning in Uechi Ryu.

Does the average Uechi practitioner need to go to one of the grappling arts to unlock this information in their kata? Yes - today. But then in my dojo I intruduce those concepts. So did Jack Summers years back. And so do other Uechi dojos (the list is growing) where a teacher has done the cross training.

Maybe MMA will put some helpful screws on those who are responsible for Dan test material. It wouldn't take much to change peoples' attitudes. Just including ukemi in with the kotekitae section would be a great start. Revamping the yakusoku kumite would also be helpful.

Then what? Grappling sparring? Maybe one day.

- Bill

[gmattson]

Oh yes, remember when we tried that?

Check out vidmag 4. . .

Interesting failed experiment. But we did spend five months training officials, but when it came time for the matches, turned into a cat/dog fight. Lots of pretty serious injuries and quite a few tough fighters gave up training after being expose to fairly realistic fighting where the officials did not follow any rules.

Thats when I brought in outside officials. . . but surprise, surprise. . . few fighters showed up for future tournaments!

[f.Channell]

Bill,

I have seen a knee get trashed at a dan test because of a take down.

I have seen people doing advanced grappling moves in dan Kumite at a Dan test and test board members who didn't know how to judge or rank it because they didn't cross train.

And yes serious injury can occur from takedowns. I've seen broken ankles, trashed knees and separated and torn up shoulders.

I have to find it interesting that in the Judo/grappling schools they will tell you to cross train at a Karate school.

While Karate schools try to do it all.

F.