Seisan - Jump To It

f.Channell · Post by **f.Channell** » Sun Jul 17, 2005 3:52 am

I was just reading a book on the Japanese crane because it had some great art work I wanted to use on a project.

Never thought before that cranes are not native or exist in southern China.
which leads to the possibility of the system coming from northern China or India which have cranes.
Or Kanbun referred to cranes because he liked them. The Japanese crane has a long and interesting history in Japan.

For many years it was protected and only the emperor could eat them.
And that was only one a year.

According to my book that is.

F.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sun Jul 17, 2005 6:58 am

f.Channell wrote:Tony,

Just don't chop at the birds legs with a shinai or katana or the neighbors will talk.

If you do get them in the "egg".

F.

I've been eyeballin' them cranes lately...

maxwell ainley · Post by **maxwell ainley** » Sun Jul 17, 2005 11:28 am

John , According to Toyama sensei the older version of seisan just stepped back ,now we don't know just what Kanbun imparted to his son behind closed doors ? father to son .
Max.

Dana Sheets · Post by **Dana Sheets** » Sun Jul 17, 2005 1:30 pm

I don't think jumping or not jumping changes the low/high/low nature of the sequence. But that's just my opionion.

f.Channell · Post by **f.Channell** » Sun Jul 17, 2005 4:15 pm

The red crested crane, long considered sacred, was inviolate in much of the main island and kyushu. Officially, only one, at New Year, was allowed to be killed each year so that the emperor-himself divine-might partake of "broth of crane," a sacred elixir.
page 59 The Japanese crane

There you go Tony.
They must have a Japanese recipe for that somewhere.
A chance to eat like an emperor.

Which is what happened in 1868 when the animals were no longer protected and everyone got rifles for the first time.

The cranes were hunted almost to extinction in Japan.

Interesting to me anyway whether we have any movements taken from the crane at all. Or the health and logevity benefits of Karate are what we take from the crane. Thought once to have lives of 1,000 years.
After all, what do we take from the dragon.
Or ever see a tiger block or kick?

F.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sun Jul 17, 2005 5:10 pm

I agree Fred, Uechi isn't like a crane, it's more like a TURDUCKEN!

Except it's not a Turkey, stuffed with a duck thats stuffed with a chicken, it's a Dragon, stuffed with a tiger, thats been stuffed with a crane!

f.Channell · Post by **f.Channell** » Mon Jul 18, 2005 3:12 am

Tony,
I must have spent too much time driving my vette this weekend.

Why does that look like a 350 V8??

Freaky.

F.

Bill Glasheen · Post by **Bill Glasheen** » Mon Jul 18, 2005 3:14 pm

John wrote: Seriously ... there's that legend that Kanbun Sensei was so talented that he threw in a fast front kick mid-flight in the Seisan jump at his village demo.

There's usually a little bit of truth to every legend.

I have a "kick" built into my Seisan jump. Recently Tomoyose Sensei saw me do my Seisan, and tried to talk me out of it. He made some comments about how Kanbun used to do it, but tried to remove it from my own. Frankly to do otherwise didn't work for me.

And just what is this legendary athletic feat? The move that'll kick the asses of the Wobodan bullies?

Well...

Let me start by saying I haven't ever and never will dunk a basketball. Meanwhile... I started in Japanese karate. A double front kick happened to be something I did well. As a white belt, I was fooling black belts with it. (You know... You nail them with one. They look surprised. They acknowledge you with an "Osu!" And then you get your ass kicked...

)

To me, it's a matter of good mechanics. I can't jump well without it. I teach this as part of the jump forward to all my students. It's a pre-stretch (triggering neuromuscular reflexes) that helps you get the right leg forward easier and farther.

As Gary Kouri implores his students, "Strong knees, please!"

Meanwhile, you all are more than welcome to spread the legend of the hidden Glasheen kick in the jump.

- Bill

Glenn · Post by **Glenn** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 9:58 pm

maxwell ainley wrote: John , According to Toyama sensei the older version of seisan just stepped back ,now we don't know just what Kanbun imparted to his son behind closed doors ? father to son .
Max.

Bill also said something similar. If the older version just had a step back, what about the "jump" forward into the horse stance...was that also a step instead?

maxwell ainley · Post by **maxwell ainley** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 4:16 pm

Glenn,
Again a step forewards, yet we get ref; to Kanbun doing a jump .
Watchers always state "because Kanbun sensei moved that fast it was very difficult to follow the movements " also Kanbun would add movements ,this is very chinese ,plus kanbun was more chinese influenced than japanese orientated we seem to get conflicting reports on what he did perform in the so called fast seisan .

Glenn · Post by **Glenn** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 5:45 pm

Kanbun was not teaching at the time he did the demo in question, and I have seen it said that his students never did see him perform any kata in its entirety. Apparently he would just show each a piece of a kata as he was teaching that portion of it to each. Anyone have any info on this? And what would this mean for the passing down of whole kata from Kanbun? I could see a teaching technique like that leading to a lot of variability in the students.

Dana Sheets · Post by **Dana Sheets** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 5:54 pm

When I have seen the jump back done as a step it is both a step forward and a step back. However the step back is somewhat off the line.

Glenn · Post by **Glenn** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 6:14 pm

Dana Sheets wrote:When I have seen the jump back done as a step it is both a step forward and a step back. However the step back is somewhat off the line.

Dave and I were playing around with this last night at class. Is there any video of how you've seen it Dana?

Dana Sheets · Post by **Dana Sheets** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 6:37 pm

hmmmm...nope, not that I remember.

This is a fascinating little .pdf that comares three Seisan kata.
This is the first hand-drawn rendering I've seen of Seisan. Not bad, misses some of the finer points - but still fun to see.

http://www.bushido-kai.net/budoya/img/H ... Seisan.pdf

source: http://www.bushido-kai.net/budoya/video ... _list.html

Glenn · Post by **Glenn** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 8:04 pm

I have also heard that Uechi Ryu Seisan did not originally have the 3 nukite at the beginning, but instead started with the double ridge-hand strike to the head. Supposedly Kanei added the 3 nukite. Anyone have any info on this?

Are there other changes in Seisan? Sanseiryu? Sanchin?