Van does something like this too... good luck going up that center or attacking that attack...John Giacoletti wrote: haven't seen enough champion level karate. A fighter like Higa hops in left knee and leg raised (this is the defense)circles with his left hand (another defensive manuver)and grabs his opponent while firing at the same time a blindingly quick right reverse punch.
Boxing and stuff
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Guest
Re: Reply to Laird
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Stryke
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Guest
Karate/Boxing differences
Stryke:
The only tournaments I'm up for are those vicious 5 day a week 9-5 matches. I'm a karate and kobudo student and not a tournament competitor.
I started training in 1982 and I've seen and worked out with the cream of the Okinawan crop since my teacher was a competitor from 1981 through 1994 and earned his Muay Thai Instructor certification in 1996 from Master Vut Kamnark. Dennis Brett from Australia introduced kickboxing to our dojo in 1995 and the three-time Okinawan World Karate Champion Master Karl Ayliffe also from Australia has trained with us several times. The top notch Okinawan Uechi sensei and students visit our dojo every year and train with us for a week or so. I've had 25 years of a rich and valuable hands on experience to develop a perspective.
Unfortunately, a US "national champion" in my estimation doesn't necessarily indicate that the title holder was sufficiently skilled or experienced in karate.
Most of the karate and kickboxing I see on TV is an embarassment and the fighters are raw and rough but hardly "artists."
Stryke, my man, what are your qualifications and your level of experience?
And you emulate ....?
The only tournaments I'm up for are those vicious 5 day a week 9-5 matches. I'm a karate and kobudo student and not a tournament competitor.
I started training in 1982 and I've seen and worked out with the cream of the Okinawan crop since my teacher was a competitor from 1981 through 1994 and earned his Muay Thai Instructor certification in 1996 from Master Vut Kamnark. Dennis Brett from Australia introduced kickboxing to our dojo in 1995 and the three-time Okinawan World Karate Champion Master Karl Ayliffe also from Australia has trained with us several times. The top notch Okinawan Uechi sensei and students visit our dojo every year and train with us for a week or so. I've had 25 years of a rich and valuable hands on experience to develop a perspective.
In the Uechi and Okinawan tournaments I've seen, there's frequently a sweep and takedown, followed by a grab for control followed by a punch. There's definately a two step process. Without the grab the judges would say you didn't have control.matches are won without grabs and controls .. in fact it`s banned in most competitions , you can grab and strike simultaneously but not in two steps ...
What was the basis of the disqualification? Why wasn't Pereda protecting his head? Or jaming the kick by charging in during the spin in which the opponent's back must have been "available?"Current national champion Alex Pereda who was looking extremely strong was hit in the face by a spinning hook kick which broke his jaw for the trouble. His Uzbekistani opponent was disqualified in this semi-final and Alex went straight through to the final. However, the broken jaw was just a little too painful to compete with
Unfortunately, a US "national champion" in my estimation doesn't necessarily indicate that the title holder was sufficiently skilled or experienced in karate.
Most of the karate and kickboxing I see on TV is an embarassment and the fighters are raw and rough but hardly "artists."
Stryke, my man, what are your qualifications and your level of experience?
And you emulate ....?
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Stryke
could you be a bit clearer , I dont get the QuestionAnd you emulate ....?
your kidding me right ? , you dont compete yet you can judge a national representitive ?Unfortunately, a US "national champion" in my estimation doesn't necessarily indicate that the title holder was sufficiently skilled or experienced in karate.
Your maybe all up just under 10 years more experience than me , Ive trained with many greats , and fought a few in the ring .I started training in 1982 and I've seen and worked out with the cream of the Okinawan crop since my teacher was a competitor from 1981 through 1994 and earned his Muay Thai Instructor certification in 1996 from Master Vut Kamnark. Dennis Brett from Australia introduced kickboxing to our dojo in 1995 and the three-time Okinawan World Karate Champion Master Karl Ayliffe also from Australia has trained with us several times. The top notch Okinawan Uechi sensei and students visit our dojo every year and train with us for a week or so. I've had 25 years of a rich and valuable hands on experience to develop a perspective.
I find it pointless to write a list like it somehow makes me a better karateka to name drop , I did a seminar with so and so so i`m an authority ... Ive trained with world champions and great Teachers , and you know what there all just people , the ones I continue to train with I just call friends .
Ive never fought in okinawa I`ll take your word for it , In my experience knocking the crap out of your opponent was deemed enough control . I guess your experience is with uechi specific comps , the ruleset of course would encourage more grabbing .In the Uechi and Okinawan tournaments I've seen, there's frequently a sweep and takedown, followed by a grab for control followed by a punch. There's definately a two step process. Without the grab the judges would say you didn't have control.
I dont think theres many fast enough to do what you suggest , he was faked out , i`m unsure on the dq myself I beleive it amy of been a split second call on referee stoppage , I would of given him the titleWhat was the basis of the disqualification? Why wasn't Pereda protecting his head? Or jaming the kick by charging in during the spin in which the opponent's back must have been "available?"
i`m an elite Uechi white beltStryke, my man, what are your qualifications and your level of experience?
, Trained in a few styles , been in more tournaments than I can recall on a local , national , and international level .A highlight would of been Beating the Uzbekistani mentioned in the DQ above Leading the Mens Team Kumite (New Zealand and South Africa) to second place over all .
Another would of been fighting A German Sandan who was ranked second in the world , and was 7 ft Tall , only to loose the fight in extra time (wish I could recall foreign names)
Sparring the Australian National champion to an extra time decision only to once again loose , and for him to go on to win the title .
Lots of other smaller personal milestones ... But I feel confident in saying I have some experience with competitive karate . And dont just recite what others have done .
What embarresses me Is people spouting off about competitors after stating that they dont get in the ring , Until youve done it I dont beleive anyone has a right to criticise anothers performance .Most of the karate and kickboxing I see on TV is an embarassment and the fighters are raw and rough but hardly "artists."
The understanding is in the doing ....
If you dont want to compete fine ... But dont judge others with the metal to get out there and put it on the line .
Last edited by Stryke on Fri Oct 14, 2005 7:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Stryke
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Guest
Marcus is a very skilled international points fighter and he is very humble and quiet about his sucsess. He is not a bragart. But he has risen to a level few reach.
Marcus is family and lived in my home for some time, we knew each other a long time before I learned of accomplishments. He feels no need to boast of what he has achieved.HE certainly doesn't boast of what others have acheived.
John you talk to me like I know nothing, you talk down to me. Telling me how to skip in jam and strike,thanks for the lesson sensei. Jimmy showed me that in white belt class.
My journey started in 1978 with Maloney Sensei.
Back them Ralph Hollet was figthing for the world professional kick boxing championship against Bill Wallace.
Bobby Ash was world ranked as well. # 4. I believe. Paul Talbot might also have been top ten I'm not sure. We had lots of wars with Jean Yeves Thearauit who was world champ for 15 years after Ralph and Bill retired. One of my dojo mates, Chris Delorean was Canadian or world heavyweight Muay Thia champ for ten years. Trevor Berbick the Canadian heavy weight boxing champion was a sparring partner, he went on to be world champion for a few years until Tyson took him out big time.
For the record. the exploits of my dojo mates are their accomplishments and their reward for their hard training . what they accieved has nothing to do with me. I never won those titles they did and they paid for them with their sweat and pain and courage...not me.
I'd suggest the sames hold true for you sir. You have won nothing your sensei did. Stop riding on someone elses coat tails. He won not you! You have never entered the ring.....there is still time mate.
I'm 52 and I entered a tournament last year. It was kind of fun! Try it, you may not be a former world champ like sensei, but at least if you do you won't be blowing smoke up our.....kilts. (was that a anal reference
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It would give you more credibility you wouldn't have to try and borrow other folks names. After 25 years man you should be able to stand on your own.
Marcus is family and lived in my home for some time, we knew each other a long time before I learned of accomplishments. He feels no need to boast of what he has achieved.HE certainly doesn't boast of what others have acheived.
John you talk to me like I know nothing, you talk down to me. Telling me how to skip in jam and strike,thanks for the lesson sensei. Jimmy showed me that in white belt class.
My journey started in 1978 with Maloney Sensei.
Back them Ralph Hollet was figthing for the world professional kick boxing championship against Bill Wallace.
Bobby Ash was world ranked as well. # 4. I believe. Paul Talbot might also have been top ten I'm not sure. We had lots of wars with Jean Yeves Thearauit who was world champ for 15 years after Ralph and Bill retired. One of my dojo mates, Chris Delorean was Canadian or world heavyweight Muay Thia champ for ten years. Trevor Berbick the Canadian heavy weight boxing champion was a sparring partner, he went on to be world champion for a few years until Tyson took him out big time.
For the record. the exploits of my dojo mates are their accomplishments and their reward for their hard training . what they accieved has nothing to do with me. I never won those titles they did and they paid for them with their sweat and pain and courage...not me.
I'd suggest the sames hold true for you sir. You have won nothing your sensei did. Stop riding on someone elses coat tails. He won not you! You have never entered the ring.....there is still time mate.
I'm 52 and I entered a tournament last year. It was kind of fun! Try it, you may not be a former world champ like sensei, but at least if you do you won't be blowing smoke up our.....kilts. (was that a anal reference
)It would give you more credibility you wouldn't have to try and borrow other folks names. After 25 years man you should be able to stand on your own.
Last edited by Guest on Fri Oct 14, 2005 3:14 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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benzocaine
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Guest
Yeah Johns got a great group of folks to train with. I'm sure we all would love to train with some of the Sensei he works with.
as far as asking qualifications? I figure opinions and ideas should be considered on their merit and become no better or less as a result of the number of gold stripes on your belt or the number of world titles you hold
But hey thats just my white belt look at the world.
John,
‘Elite’ is a bad word because it conjures up superiority_ like our Uechi is better than all your Uechi combined out there.
George and I have been in a few of these floating fantasies. It is all about the individual student as to who he is and how he has been tested by demanding competition, against tough fighters of different styles, and tested by life_ that counts.
I know Rick Martin, and I am sure he would not approve of portraying personal elitism.
What it does is to turn off Uechi-ka at large, who will perceive arrogance, instead of promoting cooperation and exchanges.
As to the spinning wheel kick_ I have faced it from top TKD/TSD fighters in competition, and believe me when I say it_those fighters will set you up for it and you won’t even see it coming.
I used to teach it to my competition team, and one of my students broke the arm of another student who tried to block it. Thank God for that or he could have been killed if the kick had contacted the head.
Now as to Marcus_ he is a young 31 years old, strapping six footer/220lbs of solid muscle, with piston kicks and fast muscle twitches, veteran of International competition.
Stepping down into the ring against top rated fighters is not only educational but also very humbling.
And this goes long way to understand dynamics of street fighting.
‘Elite’ is a bad word because it conjures up superiority_ like our Uechi is better than all your Uechi combined out there.
George and I have been in a few of these floating fantasies. It is all about the individual student as to who he is and how he has been tested by demanding competition, against tough fighters of different styles, and tested by life_ that counts.
I know Rick Martin, and I am sure he would not approve of portraying personal elitism.
What it does is to turn off Uechi-ka at large, who will perceive arrogance, instead of promoting cooperation and exchanges.
As to the spinning wheel kick_ I have faced it from top TKD/TSD fighters in competition, and believe me when I say it_those fighters will set you up for it and you won’t even see it coming.
I used to teach it to my competition team, and one of my students broke the arm of another student who tried to block it. Thank God for that or he could have been killed if the kick had contacted the head.
Now as to Marcus_ he is a young 31 years old, strapping six footer/220lbs of solid muscle, with piston kicks and fast muscle twitches, veteran of International competition.
Stepping down into the ring against top rated fighters is not only educational but also very humbling.
I agree. Putting it on the line against unknown fighters in tough matches develops some essential attributes and personal qualities that round off a student in more ways than people, who have not stepped into the ring, can imagine or can understand.What embarrasses me Is people spouting off about competitors after stating that they don’t get in the ring , Until you’ve done it I don’t believe anyone has a right to criticize another’s performance .
The understanding is in the doing ....
If you don’t want to compete fine ... But don’t judge others with the metal to get out there and put it on the line
And this goes long way to understand dynamics of street fighting.
Last edited by Van Canna on Fri Oct 14, 2005 8:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Van
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Bill Glasheen
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Marcus is legit. Obviously, 'cause I said so! But seriously... I know just enough about him to know he'd be a handful for anyone, and that is a most major understatement. Furthermore, he's not one to brag about it. What you see is what you get online. The physique and personna just don't quite make it across our cyber warrior screens.
And Marcus, you need not defend your honor or reputation; it is firmly intact.
It's difficult discussing the legitimacy of one venue vs. the next. They are ALL sport venues with rules. The rules will dictate the nature of the activity. It's all cooperative or semi-cooperative. To fault the competitors in a venue because they don't look like "the ideal" is confusing the moon for the finger pointing at it. It's the rules, man! The best athlete optimizes his/her ability to succeed given the rules.
And then there is the street with the "monkey dance" rituals.
And then there is the suprise attack venue.
And then there are various law enforcement, prison guard, military, and special forces venues.
And then there's dealing with your nagging spouse, and learning not to slug the crap out of your kid when he breaks your favorite chair...
When Rory gets done with his latest written work, it'll be a little bit easier to appreciate these subtleties.
Meanwhile... I agree that the All Okinawa Tournament venue has some nice rules. I like the idea of getting extra points when you control (grab, pin, throw) your opponent before "scoring." I also like the fact that it allows us to use a little more of our Uechi. It makes sense to me - particularly when you consider the goals of fighting in law enforcement and prison venues. It begins and ends with control, and just striking the crap out of someone doesn't do it there. You'd be better off learning to grapple.
- Bill
But seriously... I know just enough about him to know he'd be a handful for anyone, and that is a most major understatement. Furthermore, he's not one to brag about it. What you see is what you get online. The physique and personna just don't quite make it across our cyber warrior screens.And Marcus, you need not defend your honor or reputation; it is firmly intact.
It's difficult discussing the legitimacy of one venue vs. the next. They are ALL sport venues with rules. The rules will dictate the nature of the activity. It's all cooperative or semi-cooperative. To fault the competitors in a venue because they don't look like "the ideal" is confusing the moon for the finger pointing at it. It's the rules, man! The best athlete optimizes his/her ability to succeed given the rules.
And then there is the street with the "monkey dance" rituals.
And then there is the suprise attack venue.
And then there are various law enforcement, prison guard, military, and special forces venues.
And then there's dealing with your nagging spouse, and learning not to slug the crap out of your kid when he breaks your favorite chair...
When Rory gets done with his latest written work, it'll be a little bit easier to appreciate these subtleties.
Meanwhile... I agree that the All Okinawa Tournament venue has some nice rules. I like the idea of getting extra points when you control (grab, pin, throw) your opponent before "scoring." I also like the fact that it allows us to use a little more of our Uechi. It makes sense to me - particularly when you consider the goals of fighting in law enforcement and prison venues. It begins and ends with control, and just striking the crap out of someone doesn't do it there. You'd be better off learning to grapple.
- Bill
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Stryke
