Uechi-Ryu.com

Hi Panther,

I have a gun question, if you don't mind...

I've read a bit about Atty. Gen. Reilly's so-called COnsumer Protection Regs. regarding the horrendously rigorous standards new handguns sold in Mass. must meet. Many handgun manufacturers won't even bother putting their guns through testing. Too much hassle.

Now, the question:

May a Mass. LTC holder go to another state, buy a non-Mass compliant handgun and bring it back to Mass, for his/her own personal use (not for resale?) Or is mere possesion of a non-Mass. complaint handgun enough to get someone in deep yogurt?

Don't mean to tie up the forum.

Have a nice day!

Gene

Naaa, Gene... You're not tying up the forum.

This one is right up my... ummm... firing range.

The answer is easy, even though the Attorney General's office refuses to answer questions to anyone... not even legislators! The AG's office response is: "Do whatever you want... if it's illegal, we'll be there to prosecute you."

But the answer actually lies in the Federal regulations. While you may purchase a longarm from another state and bring it into Massachusetts (or whatever your home state is), you may not do so with a handgun. If you do bring that longarm into Massachusetts, you are required to register it using a form FA-10, available from the local police department.

All handguns transferred from one state to another must be transferred through an FFL/dealer. Since the AG's regs specifically target dealers, you can't get that handgun transferred into this State.

To purchase a handgun that is not on the approved list in Massachusetts you must find someone who owns that handgun "on the books" in Massachusetts prior to the AG's regs going into effect. Then that handgun may be transferred to you within the State. A zero-sum solution as far as the State is concerned. The other way that guns may enter the State lawfully (whether longarms or handguns) and not have to be registered using the FA-10 forms, is if you own the guns while living in another State and then move into Massachusetts. In that case you do not have to register them at all. (Please note that there are those who will argue that I'm wrong on that... usually LEOs or government types, but I've checked the laws repeatedly and in that case, there is no registration requirement. Of course, you can't sell those guns in Massachusetts unless they're registered anyway... Also, be damn sure you have the proper licenses after moving to Massachusetts before you transport those firearms into the State... Just ask Alec Costerus of Concord! )

So, that was my long-winded response to simply tell you, "No, you can't do that... "

Gracias for the answer.

I wonder why the longarm regs are a bit less stringent? Let's hope Mr. Reilly doesn't get a bug up his...

Anyway,

Would you mind sending me an e-mnail, Panther? I have another gun ?? that doesn't need to be on the forum (way off topic).
Thanx again,

Gene
genorph@aol.com

[This message has been edited by Gene DeMambro (edited October 30, 2002).]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote

To purchase a handgun that is not on the approved list in Massachusetts you must find someone who owns that handgun "on the books" in Massachusetts prior to the AG's regs going into effect.

Good point. What defines "on the book" ?

If one has owned guns for thirty years or so, but does not have purchase receipts etc., then what happens? Are you stuck with the guns? How can you dispose of them?

"On the book" refers to those guns in compliance with the Consumer Protection Regulations, as published by the AG's Office (i.e. AG Reilly).

If you can show existing ownership of a gun you legally acquired before 1998 (i.e. non-compliant), such as you've owned it for 30 years), then that gun is "grandfathered" in. These guns are in demand and command high prices.

Presumably one can show legal ownership by way of tracking down the history of a gun by its Serial Number.

Panther?

Gene

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gene DeMambro:
"On the book" refers to those guns in compliance with the Consumer Protection Regulations, as published by the AG's Office (i.e. AG Reilly).

If you can show existing ownership of a gun you legally acquired before 1998 (i.e. non-compliant), such as you've owned it for 30 years), then that gun is "grandfathered" in. These guns are in demand and command high prices.

Presumably one can show legal ownership by way of tracking down the history of a gun by its Serial Number.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>




When I say "on the books" regarding a firearm (only in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts does the term "firearm" mean "handgun") or longarm in Massachusetts, I'm referring to that firearm being registered with the Criminal History Systems Board! That registration was automatically done if the firearm or longarm in question was purchased in Massachusetts or obtained through a Massachusetts dealer/FFL. Otherwise, if purchased within Massachusetts from a private individual or transferred into Massachusetts from purchase in another State, the transfer of that handgun is required to be done by a Massachusetts FFL/dealer and the registration using an FA-10 dealer form is, again, automatically done. If you purchase a longarm from an out-of-state dealer or private individual, and you are already a Massachusetts resident, you are supposed to file the required FA-10 registration form with the Criminal Systems History Board (the same folks that track paroled murders, rapists and sex-offenders... and while gun-owners are required by law to report change of address within 30 days of moving, those paroled sex-offenders have been held to have a "Constitutional Right to Privacy" and it has been adjudicated that they do not have to report changes of address!).

So... How can a handgun or longarm be "off the books" in Massachusetts? As previously stated, if you move into the Commonwealth from another State and already own those firearms, then before you bring the guns into Massachusetts get properly licensed and then you may legally bring those guns into the Commonwealth without registering them. Those guns are "off the books" so to speak and in those cases, they can not be transferred if they are not AG-reg compliant. The AG regs state that the firearm (remember, that's a handgun in MA) must have been registered in the State before Chapter 180 of 1998 in order to be exempt. OR if the new resident does register the handgun using the FA-10 form, then some people feel that it can then be legally transferred to another Massachusetts resident. That is one of those things that the AG's office refuses to acknowledge one way or the other, so different folks interpret the regs differently. YMMV and IANALNDIPOOTV...

Gene,

e-mail me at: kincaid@datalynxconsulting.com

Take care and be good to each other...

Of course, I cold be wrong!

Gene

Okay. Say A friend gifted me with a handgun thirty or so years ago when no registration paperwork was in effect.

In turn he had been made a gift of the same gun without "paper trail".

How do I prove the gun existed in the State prior to the new regulations went into effect?

What about guns that have been in the family for fifty years or so, like old Colt six shooters, Lugers __ taken back from the battlefield by G.I. soldiers etc?

How do you transfer/sell those guns?


------------------
Van Canna

Notice: All of my comments for this post are based on the facts that lawful gun-owners in the U.S. are targeted to have their guns confiscated as has happened in Great Britain, Australia, and (still being worked on in) Canada. Registration has always lead to confiscation! And if anyone thinks it can't happen here... It already has... In California, NYC, Washington DC, and Chicago... so far. Massachusetts, your day is coming. Also, the fact is that lawful gun-owners have lower crime rates than NON-gun-owners! With that in mind...

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Van Canna:
Okay. Say A friend gifted me with a handgun thirty or so years ago when no registration paperwork was in effect.

In turn he had been made a gift of the same gun without "paper trail".

How do I prove the gun existed in the State prior to the new regulations went into effect?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why would you want to!

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote

What about guns that have been in the family for fifty years or so, like old Colt six shooters, Lugers __ taken back from the battlefield by G.I. soldiers etc?

So... Keep it cleaned, oiled and functioning properly (as in: "well-regulated")...

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote

How do you transfer/sell those guns?

I'm sorry... it is against my religious beliefs to sell guns. (BUY them, yes. Sell them, no... )

Regardless, if you know of such circumstances that exist and the person truly wants to transfer or sell those guns... let me know. I'm sure we can work something out where the person will be pleased and the freedom legacy of those firearms can be preserved...

Take care and be good to yourself...

In Liberty...



[This message has been edited by Panther (edited November 02, 2002).]